Interview with Copywriter & Strategist Divine Bunch

The mindset shifts you need for a successful freelance business.

 

Divine Bunch, Copywriter and Marketing Strategist

 

Divine is a Jersey native located in Elizabethtown, Kentucky. She has loved writing since she could hold a pen. She is now a copywriter and marketing strategist, primarily writing for creatives and coaches, including professional sales coach and international best-selling author Julie Hausner, Health Coach and #1 best-selling author Sakinah B., and renowned writer Ayisha Hayes-Taylor. 

 

Divine’s Background and Discovery of Copywriting

 

Welcome Divine, thank you so much for joining me today!

 

Thank you for having me!

 

Sure! Let’s just start off. Can you give us a little background in your own words, of where you are from, where you grew up, and how you came upon copywriting? I feel like everyone discovers it in such a unique way. It’s not something you think about being when you are a little girl choosing what to be when you grow up. So give us some of your background and how you discovered copywriting.

 

Definitely. I’m from Jersey, my favorite place on the planet. My Dad was actually in the Army so we wound up in Elizabethtown, Kentucky that way. As far as getting into Copywriting, my whole family is full of entrepreneurs. When my Mom ran her business growing up, she had me do a lot of admin work for her. She would always ask me to help with edits or to write up certain things for her marketing pieces and I loved doing it. I remember thinking that there has to be some way that I can just write for people who hate writing. Then when I learned that this was a real job, my mind was blown. I was like woah I can literally get paid for this. 

 

So right around March last year when everything was beginning to shut down, my family was having a hard time and I needed to take work off a lot. Plus I hated my job so I wound up dragging out quitting my job. I did it over a three month period. As I was slowly quitting my job, which was a whole complicated situation, I wound up finding Write Your Way to Freedom from Sarah Turner. From there I picked up on the course and it was just kind of a leap of faith. I decided ya know what, I’m just going to do this.

 

I started the course. I went for it and then I got two clients. Of course that imposter syndrome kicked in, suddenly I thought I was a bad writer and that I couldn’t do it and could never convince anyone to buy anything. Then within two months, my copy was converting and I had great clients that I adored and I just have not looked back since.

 

Imposter Syndrome

 

That is so amazing. I love that. It’s so funny how imposter syndrome creeps in. You start out all bright eyed and bushy tailed in this industry. I’m sure you were complimented by your work and then all of a sudden you start questioning.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

In the course you took, did they talk about that in there? Did they say it was to be expected and that you just need to move through it? Or how did you overcome the imposter syndrome part of it?

 

Yes. So in the course, instead of starting off with the different components of copy, she goes over your mindset. She kind of makes you sit down and think about who you are as a person and what you want out of your business and out of your life, what your life will look like, however many years from now. Then she really reinforces making value aligned goals. 

 

I think that really helped me because sometimes I can be more of a people pleaser and once I got around to having more clients, it became a big deal for me that I knew what I wanted out of my business and how I wanted to run things because whenever you get more clients they try to sway you a little bit into what they want. And sometimes you’ll have those clients that want to manipulate you or gaslight you and make you feel like you are just the worst person in the world because you are not doing everything that they want the way that they want. You really have to be able to be strong in your mindset and who you are, and know that what you are doing is ethical and aligned with your values, if that makes sense. 

 

That makes total sense and it’s not always easy but you are the one looking back at you in the mirror in the morning and at the end of the day. That is part of this job, is making those tough decisions of who you want to work with but it’s also a huge benefit because you do get to pick who you want to work with.

 

Exactly.

 

I wanted to touch on this too. You said that it took you about three months to quit your job, and I think that is really important for people to understand. We get this message a lot that you can quit your job and be a freelancer and it’s not so easy and simple. But everyone’s situation is different. For me, I was building a side hustle, basically working on my business while I was at work for a few months until I felt comfortable. I’m glad that you mentioned that it was a three month process for you. I don’t know if you feel comfortable going into any more of that, but what were some of the things you needed to set up before you felt comfortable to make the leap?

 

Well I am a free spirit, and I definitely act more on emotion than logic. So a lot of that three month period was really just getting into the mindset that I could really do this and just building that confidence in myself. And then from there I don’t even think I had my first client before I quit, oh yes I did. I quit and then I think the next day I had my first client. And that totally was not a rational decision, I don’t advise it, because it was definitely hard. It still can be sometimes but it is not a decision that I regret for myself personally. I feel like once I quit, the whole world got brighter and I was just not as depressed and sick of my life anymore. I struggled, but it was a different type of struggle. I was still happier in that struggle than being at work.

 

Yes! That is really beautiful. It is going to be a struggle, like you said, but would you rather struggle making your dream a reality or making someone else’s dream a reality? 

 

Exactly.  

 

Surprises in Being a Copywriter

 

What are some surprises that have come about in your copywriting journey so far or some things that you weren’t expecting?

 

The mindset definitely. I knew that I would have some clients that would kind of challenge me but I never thought about how much of what I think of myself plays into my work. I think it was just a really big deal to be able to set my own personal bias aside sometimes with work, so I would never compromise my own moral standing, but there are certain things. I’m trying to think of a really good analogy. Sometimes I’ll have clients that want me to write something that I’m not aligned with. I have to figure out how to have those conversations where I explain that I don’t agree with this and may not be the best person to write this, but I don’t hold that against you and I don’t want you to hold that against me. Does that make sense?

 

That makes total sense. It’s providing them a service actually, being that honest. There is someone out there who is a better match and now you are freeing up both your time and energy to go out and find that better match.

 

Exactly. 

 

Yeah I totally get that. 

 

Working with Other Accomplished Women

 

So, I listed off some pretty amazing women in your bio, and I’m wondering if you can tell us a little more about working with them? Or if there are any cool stories that came out of that relationship? Or how you got connected in the first place?

 

Absolutely. So, we’ll go backwards. Ayisha, I actually met through my church. I had no idea that she had the resume that she did, I just loved her. I loved her daughter because her daughter is just like her. She is such a girly girl but even at three years old, she was such an empowered girl. She knew who she was and she constantly went around spreading confidence to other people. I loved hanging out with her and when I decided I wanted to get into writing she said, “Oh that’s crazy, because I am actually a ghostwriter and I would love to help mentor you in whatever you need. I’ll mentor you if you just write my website.” I was like “Oh, ok!” 

 

That’s awesome!

 

It is! She was ghostwriting for so many amazing people, like Oprah! It just blows my mind, you know these people but you just don’t know what they have done until it comes up. So that was how I met Ayisha, and she still continues to mentor me and support me through all the things that I do.

 

And Sakinah is actually my mom. I have written a lot of her blogs, I’ve helped her with some of her landing pages, and websites too. She was definitely my guinea pig. She is where I test out a lot of my different marketing strategies. I’ll be like ooh I have this new style that I want to learn, do you care if I use this on this campaign that you are running to try it? And she is so supportive of it, I love it. 

 

That’s amazing! 

 

Yes! And Julie was actually a referral client from my accountability groups. I hopped on Zoom with her to talk about a website and I just loved her immediately. She is so sweet and she would give you the shirt right off your back. I was very careful and intentional to include all she is as a person in her website, even though she didn’t want to. I was like, people need to know how amazing you are.

 

Yeah, I love that. 

 

Onboarding Process

 

Speaking of that, what are some of your processes to write people’s websites or about pages? Do you do an interview process or send out a questionnaire? And also, I feel like with a lot of copywriting, there is coaching that comes along with it or strategy and stuff like that because you have to help people see what we see about them. So can you talk a little bit about your process around that?

 

Yes, I have actually just revamped that process, and I love this so much better. In the beginning, I give them a branding worksheet and we go over each part, what it’s for, and why we are asking for it. For example, we start with, What is your company? Why did you start it? Exactly how is it benefitting your reader’s life? And we go into how they should answer the question and the different aspects that they should be thinking of. 

 

Then we move into Who is your client? That is my favorite part, because a lot of times we can think this is our ideal client but then we add on all these different people to our ideal clients because we don’t want to miss anybody. And as you probably know, especially in the marketing realm, whenever you speak to one person, you are so much more effective than whenever you are trying to reach everyone. In the client section, it really gets down to their interests, their personality types, where they hang out, so that we can really get a good idea for the language that we should be using and just how to talk to them. What excites them, what they connect with best.

 

Then below that we get into who the business owner is as a person, what their values are and we just make sure that everything is in sync and aligned before we even start the website. So we know exactly what we are doing and we have a focused goal. I love that worksheet.

 

I love that. It’s so funny, I don’t know if you have noticed this too, when you interview someone, or not even interview, but chat with someone versus when you have them fill something out, there are always different tidbits you get based on whether they are writing or whether they are talking. It’s fun to find those, pull them out, and then use them in their copy, and then they are like get out of my head ha! I love that process.

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

Mindset Shifts

 

We kind of touched on mindset shift a little bit already and I’m totally with you. Knowing parts of a sentence, copy strategy or how to write is such a minimal part of being a copywriter. It’s so much mindset. You have already touched on some examples of how you have shifted your mindset, but is there anything else you want to touch on with that? 

 

Or do you have some advice you can give to new copywriters around mindset to maybe help them fast track towards where we have worked so hard to get through in terms of maybe working with clients or whatever comes to mind with mindset?

 

Absolutely, so my first thing would be to definitely know who you are. Know who you are, what you value, and the why behind it because once you know that why, nothing can shake that.

 

The second thing is to know your value as a copywriter. I had one week recently where I was wondering if the way that I am still running my business is how I intended to do it when I started. I was kind of starting to doubt if I was good enough, again that imposter syndrome. I was doubting if my work was even working, if it was worth anything at this point. This was because I had a client that was complaining about the entire process and a lot of little things. 

 

Then I had another client email me and she let me know that she made this really deep connection with a new client who she didn’t even really think was engaging with her content. But she said that connection came because of the blog that I wrote that they really felt deeply. She said they talked for hours, and she is a stickler about time, but they talked for hours and that wound up converting into a sale. But they have such a great relationship right now because of that one blog I wrote. And I was like, this is it, this is why I write, this is why I do what I do. I want to see those connections. So never doubt your value as a copywriter, because it’s not just about converting sales. It’s not just about making things sound pretty, it’s really about changing lives. Once you are strong in your identity, who you are as a person, and your value as a copywriter, nothing can stop you.

 

I love that. I don’t know about you but there is just some kind of crazy energy that happens when you are working with such an aligned client. It just flows. God, universe, whatever, but there is this crazy thing that happens and it’s so effortless. 

 

Absolutely. Yes, I love that creative energy. It just feels so light and you get excited about all the little things. It just comes together.

 

Vision for the Future 

 

What kind of vision do you have for the future of your copywriting business?

 

For the future, I would love to help people learn how to, not necessarily do what I do, but how to more effectively communicate. I feel like that’s something that a lot of business owners struggle to understand and I think it’s something we are starting to realize. So whenever you start your business, you have kind of an idea of what you want to do, but then you start to realize, I really don’t know how to communicate or how to even figure out what to communicate. So, in the near future, that is definitely something I want to hone in on is helping other business owners figure out how to communicate their message and what their message is.

 

It’s important and it’s funny because everyone has good intentions obviously and they are doing the best they can, but once you start talking to someone about their business, it’s like, ok you are selling paper, but you’re not really selling paper, it’s a solution to these problems and then you dig deeper into that. 

 

Absolutely.

 

Inspiration and Hobbies

 

Outside of copywriting, we are all such multifaceted, unique individuals. What are some of your favorite things to do to stay inspired, some non-writing related interests or hobbies, or causes that you want to shout out?

 

Yes, so there are a few things. I love creative things, so I love to paint, I love reading and I really love writing. I will write whole books in my spare time. I’m also on the board for a local community project that we have going on, which is Explore Hardin County. That is where in my  county, we go through and interview various lesser known small businesses in our area to really help keep the support local instead of people going to the big chains to help out our friends and neighbors.

 

That’s awesome, especially now. I feel like small businesses need so much support because they have been impacted tremendously more than the big box corporate stores, so that is such a really cool cause for you to be helping out with. I think that’s something to note too as copywriters, if you find a charity, cause or non-profit that you are interested in and have the time and bandwidth, our skill is so valuable to them. Writing social media posts, blog posts, fliers or newsletters and using our talents to help spread awareness around the cause that you are passionate about.

 

Absolutely, it’s been one of my favorite things. 

 

What are some of your favorite moments with that experience?

 

I think it helps to know what people don’t know. That’s definitely where I get a lot of my training ideas from because I have started doing workshops and trainings. I’m even doing them locally now so I can really help them out. That is where the messaging came from and it’s just been so exciting to be able to help them in a way that they are not having to throw out thousands of dollars that they don’t have, but still be there for them in that manner. 

 

I love that.   

 

Recommended Resources for Freelancers

 

Are there any tools and resources that you can recommend to other freelancers who are just starting out or people who are wanting to leave their nine to five and start their own business? Any podcasts or books that you really love?

 

Absolutely, so of course this podcast, I love it. I also really started getting into the She’s Busy AF podcast by Lauren Bordelon the owner of Brand Good Time. She is amazing no matter what business you are in, as long as you are an entrepreneur. She has helped me so much with figuring out diverse income ideas, how to scale my business, then just how to get organized and not be so stressed all the time. So in this major shift of my business, it has been harder trying to figure out how to readjust what I have learned from her but if I just go in and ask her, she has a wealth of information. Brand Good Time for sure. That’s all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

Well that sounds pretty amazing. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today, I really appreciate it.

 

Thank you for having me. 

 

Of course. And I think it’s such a cool story to see what you were able to accomplish basically in the course of a year during a pandemic. So amazing and such an inspiring story. 

 

Thank you!

 

You’re welcome! 

 

Connecting with Divine

 

Where can people find you, connect with you, work with you, all the things?

 

I am everywhere, my website is HERE. You can connect with me on Facebook or Instagram HERE. Or you can email me at divinewritingagency@gmail.com. And if anyone is interested, they can check out the Explore Hardin County FB Page HERE.

 

Perfect, as for me, people can connect with me on Instagram HERE.

 

Or come join The Copywriting Girls Club on Facebook HERE., which is where Devine and I met, so fun. 

 

And you can also grab a free copy of my Content Repurposing Guide that gives you 20+ ways to repurpose your long form content and saves tons of time and energy in your business. Grab your FREE copy HERE.

 

If you’re looking to create a soul-aligned freelance copywriting business, make sure to check out my self-paced online course, Freelance Flow! I walk you through the strategy and energetics of creating a business you love. Check it out HERE.

 

Thank you so much, I appreciate your time, appreciate you sharing all your knowledge with us, and I’ll see you in the Facebook group, and catch everyone else on our next episode. Have a great day, thank you!

 

Want to connect with other passionate female copywriters, grow your network to get new leads, improve your craft as a writer, and have a safe space to vent about clients? Join us in the Copywriting Girls Club! It’s our private girl gang on Facebook, and we would love to have you in there to share your zone of genius.